I’ll be asking them curious questions like:
– “Why did you say yes to speaking at this digital event?”
– “What will you be speaking about, and how does it relate to Sustainable Visibility®?”
– “What are you most looking forward to when you join us as an attendee for the experience? (This is my fave question!)
So if you’re someone who loves the behind the scenes conversations about folks’ private reasons for collaborating and advocating for this one-of-a-kind digital event, join us for this conversation my lovely!
Here are the links to connect with the speakers who joined us in today’s episode:
Mai-kee: Hello, my wonderful Quiet Rebels®. It’s your host Mai-kee Tsang here, and I’m super excited for today’s episode on the Quiet Rebels podcast. And the reason for that is because this is the first of its kind, because for the first time ever at the time of this recording, I’m running my first digital event.
It is called the Sustainable Visibility® Not-Quite-a-Summit-Thingamabob, and it’s running across the 5th to the 9th of February to 2024, and I’ll pop the link in the show notes if you’re interested in learning more about what that is. But the purpose of this episode today is that I wanted to give you a tiny taste of some of the speakers who raised their hands to have this more behind the scenes conversation as to:
Ah, the power of pre recording stuff. So yeah, we’re just going to go around the room and they’re going to introduce themselves, what they do, and of course what their name is, and why they showed up for this today. So who wants to go first?
Claire: I’ll go first.
Mai-kee: All right. Great.
Claire: So I am Claire Paniccia. My pronouns are she, they, I am a business mentor, coachy person for neurodivergent and spoony online entrepreneurs.
I also, I also host a summit annually. It’s called the neurodiverse entrepreneur summit. So why I showed up for this call today, I, I honestly, I love having conversations with other cool business owner people. So I say yes to all of those.
Mai-kee: And we love having you part of these conversations too. Yeah. Yes. Thanks so much, Claire. Appreciate you being here. So we have two more to go around the table with. Who is next?
Birte: So hi. I’m Birte Kahrs, but you’re very welcome to call me Bird because I’ve learned in the online space it’s easier to just call myself Birdie and I do tech strategy and implementation for mostly neurodiverse online business owners and I came here today because it’s We talked about this earlier, it was in my calendar and I showed up.
But obviously I actually also really like what the Thingamabob is about and would love it if more people showed up for the community tier.
Mai-kee: Yes, I love that and I realized when I said about this event. I didn’t actually say what it is. So I’ll do that after we introduce our last but not least Speaker of today.
Chloe: Hello friends. I am Chloe Nwangwu the brand scientist And I work with under recognized leaders brands who are looking to emerge from the margins into global recognition and I leverage science because You know, that’s the science part of the brand scientist. And I’m here like, honestly, the same reason we’re all here.
This was in my calendar and the only things that are real are things that are in my calendar. So if it’s not in my calendar, it’s not happening and it wasn’t my calendar, so it did happen. That’s just how my brain works.
Mai-kee: Thank you all for showing up today and I’m the same. I just look at my calendar and it has to be synced because I have two calendars. I’ve got my Google calendar and my personal calendar on my phone which is iCal but yeah sometimes it’s not synced and it’s like my worst nightmare. Anyhow, thank you all for showing up even if it’s just for the sake of honoring the calendar.
But I’m so happy to have you all here today because, yeah, like I said, this is a tiny taste of, you know, hearing from the speakers who actually are coming together with me to help create this first digital event.
So just a quick summary as to what I’m thingamabob, what it’s all about.
This all came together because I knew that the conversations around visibility are not one size fits all.
It means something different to every single person. And so I knew that because I’m not an expert in every form of visibility, I knew I have to call in my trusted fellow experts around me just to really come and actually really broaden this conversation.
But really through a lens, being able to show up consistently in our businesses for our clients, for our community, without having to sacrifice our capacity or breach our own boundaries or allowing it to affect our bottom line.
Because like, let’s be honest, sometimes we can go one of two ways we can go pure strategy way which is great for the business, not great for us as humans. And it can be the other side as well. And so this conversation is very much about having the sweet spot, finding that sweet spot of the two, where we can show up consistently because it works for us, how we think, how we are and what our circumstances are and having it aid the business models that we have to really sustain ourselves financially.
So that’s what this whole digital event is all about. And that’s why I’m super pleased to have like some wonderful speakers here with me today, who I handpicked from a bunch of applications, or I invited like a very small amount and I have 12 speakers in total. So what’s going to happen in this episode today, my lovely Quiet Rebels® is that I’m going to be asking these wonderful speakers:
So yeah, let’s just, let’s just start off with that. So anyone who wants to volunteer, like why did you choose to be a speaker? You could have been doing anything.
You could have been speaking at any other event. Why this one?
Birte: I can start on this because I trust you. Honestly. I’ve never spoken at an event before. To me, it’s scary AF. And. I want to do more of those opportunities, but you create a safe space in which I feel safe enough to do that for the very first time.
Mai-kee: So, I have known Birte behind the scenes for years now, and the work that she does has always been so stellar and I was like, I want to show this hidden gem because you were one of the applicants I think out of 85 people and your name is one of the last things I learned because the way that I laid out my application process was the fact that I know like the details of who you are.
Much later after I look at your topic. So it’s just kind of like trying to lessen the potential for bias as much as possible. And when I actually narrowed it down based on topics alone, when I saw your name, I was like, of course, of course it was Birte. So I’m very honored that you have chosen to show your genius at this event.
Thank you. Yes. So who else? Why did you choose to be a speaker at this event? Chloe?
Chloe: Yeah, I can go. Yeah, totally. So I am one of the privileged invitees. So Mai-kee actually invited me to be a speaker at this event. And not only was I Deeply flattered by the invitation. I’ll have to tell you I was deeply flattered by it.
But also there is this element of, I know we’ll get into this later, but just the idea around this, the thingamabob, right? The idea of Sustainable Visibility® and all the various facets that make it up and One of the things that frustrates me and is sort of the core of my work is like the quiet part that we’re not saying out loud about visibility and why it’s so unsustainable for certain kinds of people cough cough the kinds of folks who are listening right now.
And so for me, it, it became really important that I now had this. Platform that like like Birte said, like I trust you and I trust your platform. And so I know that the folks who are coming in also trust you and also trusted platform. And so it’s an incredible place for me to now be able to come and say, Hey, here’s this thing that you may not have thought about before.
And it’s affecting how sustainable your attempts at being visible are. So that was why it was the invitation and being really flattered by it. And also just the opportunity to share something that I feel is really important and is often really overlooked when we talk about visibility.
Mai-kee: Thank you. I’m glad that you felt flattered by it. I mean, I didn’t think that it would be perceived that way, but it’s good to know and I have respected your work for as long as I’ve known you and, as we’ve gotten closer, like even before this invitation came about, it’s just seeing your passion and your drive to really have these much needed conversations and especially your Harvard business review article about why we need to stop.
Or rather consider stopping talking about under representation and actually instead talking about under recognition. So be sure to link that in this episode along with along with all of the speakers here you know, where to find them, connect with them. And of course, this will also be the case if you decide to join us for the Thingamabob.
So thank you, Chloe, for sharing that. And last but not least, we’ve got Claire.
Claire: I chose to be a speaker for the thing about, because Mai-kee, everything you produce, you produce with exquisite attention to detail and capacity, like nervous system of your audience. And it’s so refreshing, always, to be witness to your launches, your events, your everything in your business, and to be able to be part of that, like something in your business like that was an obvious yes, was an obvious like, I can’t miss this opportunity.
Mai-kee: That means so much, more than you know, because sometimes when you’re doing things differently, like how this whole event has been set up to be, it’s hard because of course there’s a system that already works, but then also when you start understanding why it works and you can’t unsee it, you can’t unknow it, it’s really hard.
It’s kind of like once the blissful ignorance has been broken, you can’t go back to being ignorant because then it’s a conscious choice.
Claire: Yeah, that was, I’m not gonna lie. That was another reason why I said. Yes to being a speaker was because as a fellow summit host, I’m like, how is she gonna do this? I want to see behind the scenes. As like a fellow summit host who’s like anti capitalist it’s Rough out there, y’all.
So, I was very excited at the behind the scenes glimpse I would get as a speaker.
Mai-kee: Well, I hope that I’ve given you a good thing to think about or learn from, I guess, when it came to the process of all the speaker communications. And thank you, first of all, for sharing all of that. And something that I also want to
Kind of a flip back to all of you is that whether you chose to say yes to an invitation or whether you applied and got a spot and still decided to go through with it, something that I can say with my whole heart is that I’ve learned something exceptionally important that I still carry with me from each and every one of you and that to me it was kind of like I was I am so proud and honored to showcase some of my teachers who just so happen to be my dearest friends as well.
And I think that’s just a bonus, like the fact that we’re also friends after the fact of like being like of respecting the work that you do in the world. So I think that’s, that’s pretty cool too. But yeah, just a note to all of my lovely listeners here. I didn’t just pick my friends. They just so happened to be my friends and they did exceptional pitches or, or they do already existing, like exceptional work that I just had to invite them.
So. Thank you for sharing your perspective on that. And that brings me to the point of switching gears, what you’re actually speaking about and actually how this relates to Sustainable Visibility®. So please do like, yeah, raise your hand and say who you are for those who are listening to this podcast today.
Let’s hear it. What are you doing?
Birte: This is Birte and I’m speaking on supportive systems, setting yourself up in order to receive, and I’m talking about that topic because, at least for me as a neurodivergent person, I never feel ready to be visible online, and You know, that feeling of like, you need to do that one thing so you can do the other thing.
You know, you have to have an Instagram to be able to have a newsletter, or you have to have a newsletter to have an Instagram, and it’s kind of that downward spiral. And so to me this topic specifically, and like, even if you’re someone who doesn’t have that issue, who already is being visible, visibility comes with hopefully more inquiries and stuff like that.
So my topic is about the systems that you can set up so that you feel ready to receive, right? So that you feel like you can stop being in that downward spiral of, can I do more visibility? Or yeah, so you can start Doing those things. And it’s much a thing about very minimalist systems. So this is not something about you finding more shiny objects to go out there and do in your own [00:14:00] business.
This is a presentation and workshop on very, very minimalist things and assessing your business, how it is right now and seeing where there’s areas to improve, or maybe realizing you don’t actually have those areas to improve and you’re already ready to go.
Mai-kee: So if anything, it’s kind of like just further confirmation that you’re good to go, ready to receive, or is, is there a leak somewhere that can turn from a small leak into a huge flood gate, depending on how well your visibility does.
And this is a huge reason why I chose you, Birte because I witnessed firsthand, like before I ran my own business, I was the right hand person to a very fast rising coach in the, And I saw how quickly things were like bending and breaking because they didn’t have the systems in place. So I was like, yeah, I think we need to have a serious conversation about this.
So I’m so, so pleased that your mini workshop is all about helping us to feel ready to receive that volume once we feel safe enough in our own bodies to do so. And, you know, we’ve actually placed ourselves out there in a way that felt good. Thank you. All right. So actually, now that I mentioned safety. If I can just like go to Claire, because your topic is actually in the first round of mini workshops that will be released in the thingamabob, in the event.
And actually you’re the first up overall, of all the speakers.
Claire: No pressure.
Mai-kee: Yeah, no pressure whatsoever. So could you share a bit more about that?
Claire: Yeah, yeah. So I am speaking about. How did I phrase my title? Being visible by vetting opportunities with your values. So my presentation is very much about it’s actually not about like a visibility strategy.
But it is about setting up some things in your business and also specifically on your website to. Like, filter the opportunities coming to you to make sure that you feel safe or safer in your business. Specifically, I speak from the perspective of being a non binary person who appears very femme.
And so, a lot of people who see me don’t necessarily, like, there’s not a lot of visual cues that I’m non binary, that I’m not a woman. And so the, the visual filter is not there. And so I always get stressed about like, okay, is this person I’m talking to, they seem cool on the surface, but do they actually wish I didn’t exist?
Honestly, to just speak bluntly and so, for me, like, the, this was born, so the presentation was actually born out of me speaking about this from the perspective of vetting prospective clients, and then using that process and applying it [00:17:00] to visibility and sustainable visibility opportunities, and so that way, it, I am able to make sure that I’m finding visibility opportunities that are, like, for example, like podcast interviews or whatever that the host of those opportunities align with my social values so that I feel safer.
Because if you don’t feel safe, then you’re not going to be able to be your full genuine self, and if you’re not your full genuine self, you’re not going to be able to bring in and call in the people that you want in your audience and in your community.
Mai-kee: Yes, and these are the things that not everybody needs to talk about, or think about, right?
And it’s because of, they have various dominant identities that kind of shield them from that. And actually, the reason why I wanted to bring you into the lineup is because this is actually something that I’ve implemented in my own business when it comes to you know, vetting the values of people before they even buy from me.
But before I actually put it on my product page, my all the things page I actually did this in the speaker application process. I made it very clear when the deadlines were and all of that, but I also had a section before they even got to apply or go to the button. And I’ll, I’ll read it out now.
Just, just for, you know, transparency here. That they could only apply to be a potential speaker if they aligned with these three things. Number one. They are committed to anti racist and anti oppressive change to create more of an inclusive and equitable world, especially for those that have been historically marginalized.
They also believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and anyone else between or beyond the gender binary is both valid and welcome. And thirdly, but not last They agree wholeheartedly that anyone on the LGBTQIAP plus spectrum deserves to be celebrated and protected for who they love. Only if all of these ways of being and believing align with you, please proceed.
And I had so many messages about that. People who actually openly said, Oh, I didn’t apply actually because I don’t align with all of these. And that really said a lot. But it was in a very kind of like They started having quite the introspective period of time when they realized, Oh, actually, I’m not an aligned fit to speak at this because of this.
Now I know this about myself and it was a very respectable way that they communicated that with me. It was not actually in the form of hate in any shape or form. It was a very interesting conversation to have and it deepened the trust and appreciation for the people who applied anyway. There were so many people.
When they fill in the application, I have a question at the end. That’s kind of like anything else you want me to know. So many of those boxes were filled with the deep appreciation with how explicit I was with values. And I would never have done that had it not been for that original workshop that I took from you.
So thank you so much for adapting it, specifically through the lens of sustainable visibility in this event. I can’t wait.
Claire: Yeah. Thank you for saying all that. It’s so interesting to hear that people responded and told you that they didn’t apply because of that. And also lovely to hear that they were so respectful about it and then introspective about it.
That is what we love to hear. Yeah, it’s so interesting. Yeah, I’m, I just stand by transparency and explicitness, because, especially as an ADHD person, my autism makes it really hard for me to like, pick up on certain social cues that may have clued me in about someone’s beliefs. I don’t pick up on that stuff very naturally, and so I wish more people were explicit about this kind of stuff, so that then I can make a choice of like, mm, no, I don’t want to be on their podcast, or in their summit, or whatever.
Mai-kee: So it’s not just a hope. I know that anyone who takes your workshop in the event, that there’ll be much more. confident in equipping themselves with knowing how to vet their opportunities in that way. So I’m super, super excited about that. Thank you, Claire. And Chloe, you have such a topic that I’ve never seen before in these conversations.
So please. Share with us what your topic is.
Chloe: Yeah. So my, my workshop is called Tackling the Invisibility Tax. Getting your foot in the door even when people have been conditioned to overlook you. And this is what I was talking about when I was saying, like saying the quiet part out loud, right?
That I think, I think that often folks who are under recognized will, will see proof of that under recognition in their lives, right? Often when I’m speaking with clients they will say, oh, you know, like I have this, you know, this One peer who like we started at the same time, like we consider each other peers, we’re running similar businesses, we’re doing similar things and that person is so much further ahead than I am, right?
And then of course they always disassemble and they’re like, Oh yeah, but I know that it’s a mindset thing. I know that like, you know, this is on me. I need to be more consistent. I need to, you know, X, Y, Z, blah, blah, blah. And when I. When I, you know, listen through to them and then get to tell them, sweetie, I’m not going to say that, you know, mindset’s not a thing, but also you’re not imagining that.
That is, that gap is there by design, and that gap is real, it is not something you’re imagining and it is the result of very real, very concrete things. When I get to say [00:23:00] that to people, and have just the, right, like the sigh of relief that comes it’s honestly one of the best parts of my job. And, and so that’s, That’s like, I could say so much more about that.
But what I, what I will say is that, so this, this, this workshop is really talking about, okay, cool. Like. You are probably under recognized. Here’s how we make sure that you know for sure that you’re under recognized. I walk you through the various things that are involved, like the invisibility tax, which is an actual thing, right?
And then I teach you how to vet the various various visibility tactics and strategies that you may come across for effectiveness. Right. And so the, the, the way that I can best like. Wrap this up is essentially saying that not every approach to visibility, not every tactic, not every strategy is going to be the right one for you at any given time, right?
Context will shift and the nature of your under recognition is also going to inform. Which of these tactics and approaches are going to work for you right now, and also which of them are going to be safe. And so the method that I show you in this workshop is designed to give you the ability to discern that for yourself, right?
You’ll walk away with a tool that will show you, okay, I can now say, This, this kind of tactic is probably going to work for me where I am right now, or this kind of tactic. It might not work, but here’s what I might need to do in order to make sure that it works better for me. So that’s the topic. Yeah, I hope, I hope folks enjoy it.
And I, you know, always happy to say more about it, but I want to take up too much space.
Mai-kee: The thing is, like, as soon as she said vetting, I immediately thought how much in tandem this will work with Claire’s workshop as well. How I feel like Claire’s approach is more from a personal perspective. And I think with yours is like, is taking that and knowing how we are perceived in the world and what to do about that.
Not just about acknowledging about the, the very real biases and the inequitable opportunities that we do have. Right. But what do we do about that? And I feel like your mini workshop could really provide some concrete answers or at least starting points of what we can do for ourselves anyway. So I love that.
Thank you, Chloe, for sharing that.
Claire: I’m really excited for your presentation, Chloe!
Birte: Me too.
Mai-kee: All right, lovelies. So now you’ve all shared why you chose to be a part of this. You’ve also shared what you’re going to be speaking about in the context of Sustainable Visibility®, so I’m going to turn the tides a little bit with this last question, which is very different, I guess, and it’s because one of the things that you all receive is a ticket of your choice.
Whether it’s the no people-ing please ticket or the LIVE community ticket, depending on how much capacity you have to connect, I guess, and each of you have chosen your respective ticket, so I would love to know what are you most looking forward to from an attendee perspective,
Chloe: I’ll go. Yeah, no way. Yeah. So real talk two, like two things. I know you said one, but like of course, of course. , there’s so much to look forward to, right? . So there’s so much, there’s so much to look forward to. Okay. So I, I will say the thing that I actually wrote down, but then also what just popped up for me in my head as you were speaking like all of these workshops are exclusive to this event, right?
So like. These are all things that, like, have not been seen in this form outside of the Thingamabob. And so, like, that’s something that has me really excited because I do know and have heard of, like, some of the folks who are in this, Thingamabob with us, and, like, now I’m kind of like, oh, wait, like, I get, like, a behind-behind the seat?
Like, okay, cool, cool, like, the thing you’ve never shared anywhere else? Amazing. Here for it, right? So I’m really excited about that, that I’m, I’m going to get to see like that extra little bit that I may not have been able to see otherwise. And you know what? I’m going to stop there because I don’t want to accidentally maybe steal someone else’s by having an extra thing also.
Like you asked for one.
Mai-kee: No, you can say the second thing because if anything, it further confirms a really cool part of the experience. So go for it. Just say your second thing.
Chloe: Yeah, okay.
So the second thing is like, I’m honestly looking forward to. Like meeting, I think I already have, but like meeting my next BizBestie, essentially, like, I, you don’t even know, you don’t even know.
Before we recorded this, we were talking for like a good hour, maybe, like with each other. I’m already like. Like, Claire, Birte, and I are gonna hang after this, like, we’re gonna hang.
Chloe: Mai-kee and I already hang, but like, Claire, Birte, and I are gonna, we’re gonna hang after this, right, so like, I’m already finding Biz, like, Biz Best Besties, it’s like, incredible for me, so I just, I can’t wait for that to continue, and I wasn’t expecting for that to happen, right, but like, it kind of did, and so I’m, yeah, I’m really amped up about it.
So that’s like, that’s the second thing for me.
Mai-kee: I love it. And yeah the bonding that we had on this before we even hit record, it was everything I ever wanted it to be. So I’m so, so happy that that happened organically. And it just goes to show, I pick really cool people, just saying. So thank you, Chloe, for sharing the things that you’re most excited about.
Who would like to go next?
Birte: I can continue. Birte here. And I’m so excited for the community part. So much. One of my big goals for this year is to be more intentional about making connections, both in my personal life and online with online business people. And I think we don’t have enough.
Spaces where we proper, proper connect with people, and I think this could be a really great space for that. On Monday we have the meet and greet, and I’m really looking forward to that, to that networking with people. And also like the co-working on Friday, like I’m someone with especially with these kinds of things where you have multiple pieces of content, may that be some kind of bundle or some kind of conference, I have a hard time implementing stuff if I don’t have it scheduled.
We already talked about it earlier. If it’s not in my calendar, it doesn’t exist. It applies to courses and content for me too. And so having that part of implementation in this is really helpful for me.
Mai-kee: Yes, that was a huge thing I definitely wanted to tackle. It was kind of like that sweet spot between in like curated information, which Chloe mentioned previously about the degree of exclusivity, or rather the specific lens, because that’s something I did ask of all the speakers – which I’m so grateful for that you all delivered and came through, that you all adapted your body of work through this lens, so that this truly is a curated collection of mini workshops that literally can’t be found anywhere else.
So I love that and to be able to integrate that together in that same week. This is for the folks with live community tickets, then that’s amazing. So thank you for sharing that. And last but not least, we’ve got Claire. Yeah, what are you most looking forward to?
Claire: I am most looking forward to the meet and greets.
Because, kind of like what the other two said, like, meeting people’s heart as an adult. It is. And I am really excited to meet people.
Mai-kee: Yep, yep, yep. It’s just when you know that all the people have come for the same, if not very similar reasons. There’s just something special that happens in these spaces when you know, not only have you come into a space of like minded people, but very likely like hearted people as well, which I think is very special and I think what everyone has shared here today.
The opportunity to meet people who could be friends for life or just someone to connect with, because even past COVID, we still crave that as human beings. So I’m so pleased that, that you’ve all chosen the community ticket you know, to really be a part of that as attendees too, which is something that.
Like it was an option, but you’re like, yes, please. I want to be a part of it as well, which is really great. So thank you so, so much for all of you for coming on today. Before we wrap up, are there any final words that you would like to share for anyone who might be considering joining us for the Thingamabob?
Claire: Join us.
Birte: You just need to. And if you’re scared of the community part because anxiety is very real. I have to say that Mai-kee’s community has always been a space that I’ve always felt comfortable and safe in. I don’t have that in all spaces, especially online. I have a lot of anxiety about You know, joining spaces, feeling valid in those spaces, feeling like I am the expert that I am or things like that.
So if you are on the fence about whether you want to join the live parts do it.
Mai-kee: Thank you,. I appreciate you all for being a part of this. So my lovely listeners. If you’ve made it this far into this episode today, and if it’s still time for you, there’s still time for you to join us for this live event again, it’s happening across the 5th to the 9th of February 2024.
So if you’re listening to this in time, check the link in the show notes where you can buy your ticket today, sooner rather than later. And if you just so happen to be listening to this beyond those dates, no worries. Because if you listen, if you actually click on that link, it will take you to somewhere where you’ll Be directed to either a wait list or an interest list, which means that I may actually bring this back, which is, would be pretty damn cool.
If not, then there will be an alternative route for resources to still help you with your sustainable visibility journey. So thank you so much for listening and thank you to my lovely speakers who showed up on this episode today. I appreciate you all so, so much!
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