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#142: Creating Collectives & Choosing “Care” as a Currency of Commitment with Becky Mollenkamp

October 24, 2024

In this episode of The Quiet Rebels® Podcast, I’m honoured to be joined by my dear friend Becky Mollenkamp to speak with us about how we can create our own collectives in business, and considering the amazing ways we can measure commitment from members that has nothing to do with finances!

Here are some things we covered in our conversation:

Choosing “Care” as a Currency of Commitment
Steps to Create Your Own Collective
The Underrated Benefits of Running a FREE Collective

& we even share our gripe with the word “Professionalism”, and discuss its capitalistic roots!

To connect further with Becky, here are links mentioned in this episode:

TRANSCRIPT:

Mai-kee Tsang: Hello my wonderful quiet rebels and welcome back to the podcast. In this episode I’m super excited to be featuring a quiet rebellion that I’ve seen over the last couple of months in 2024. And if you’re someone like myself who, when you don’t see the thing that you want or need, you go and create it yourself.

Right. And my guest is exactly that kind of person. So please do join me in welcoming the wonderful Becky Mollenkamp, who is someone here to really help us unlearn capitalist conditioning and running our businesses from a fully aligned and human first value perspective. So Becky, thank you so, so much for coming onto the podcast.

Thanks for having me. I’m excited to talk. Yes. So I gave away a little bit about what you do in your work with your work in the world, but I’m just curious if we can zoom out a little bit for those who have yet to know you, I would love for them to know who you are. And then we can get into what your quiet rebellion is because I’m very honored to be a part of it myself.

And I just wonder like, Ooh, I wonder if anyone else he’s listening in the audience, maybe wondering what their white rebellion could be when they actually see what yours is all about.

Becky Mollenkamp: Well, I am, as you mentioned, a coach. I am a business accountability coach. I work with clients who are growing businesses, usually to the seven figure mark or something, but all of that’s pretty arbitrary.

It’s people who are growing their businesses and are reaching a crisis point a bit of like, This doesn’t feel good. I thought it would feel better by now and it doesn’t. And my work is helping them continue to grow, but in a way that’s actually sustainable, that feels good. And that only happens usually when we can check out of all the capitalist conditioning that says business has to look a certain way, that it has to be about growth for growth sake, reaching certain milestones around money, treating people, ways that don’t feel good.

And instead saying, what does it look like to run a business that actually aligns with my human first values, treating myself great, my employees, my clients, my community, refocusing all of those things ahead of money. Not that we don’t make money, but that those things matter more than how much money we make.

So that’s my work. As part of that, it’s really important for me to model what I’m telling my clients to do or what I’m helping my clients do, which means that I need to be in spaces with people who share those values for so long, I was inside of. The kinds of networking spaces and community spaces that most business owners are pretty familiar with and those are spaces that are often very much tied up in traditional capitalist values around money above all, growth above all, right?

And then hustle culture, burnout, sleep when you’re dead, that kind of stuff. Yeah,

Mai-kee Tsang: I’ve heard that too many

Becky Mollenkamp: times. Yes, and it doesn’t feel good.

Mai-kee Tsang: And

Becky Mollenkamp: unfortunately, Google thinks that woman or female is a synonym for feminist or womanist or intersectional feminist, which is just not true. I live by a set of values that are much more of an intersectional feminist values, meaning that I prioritize people above money, and that I recognize all of the varying intersections of identity that can affect our experience in the world.

And I want to be in spaces with people who care about those same things. Those are hard to find or impossible to find. And so I was ending up in a lot of women’s spaces because that was the closest approximation that I could find. And it was real hit or miss. Some of the people I would meet were amazing.

Most of the people I met were still really caught up in all of the kinds of things that I just don’t want to participate in anymore. And I got to a place of like, it just doesn’t feel good to be inside of these spaces. And if I’m gonna tell clients that there is another way of showing up in the business world then I need to Do that for myself.

And when you can’t find a space that feels really good, what are you going to do? I know for a lot of people, it just means that they don’t have that space. And I get it because not everyone is built for creation. Not everyone is a community builder, but it happens to be a particular strength of mine and something I actually really enjoy.

And so for me, the answer has been over the last year plus creating the spaces that I can’t find.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yeah. So that I can have them. That’s right there. That’s like a quote quotable for this episode. Yes. And so, all right, creating the spaces that you can’t find. And I just want to echo what you mentioned that it can be a hit or miss when you’re in spaces that use the umbrella term of, actually not even just an umbrella term, but just, women led spaces, we make an assumption almost.

It’s like, Oh, well, if you’re a woman, then ideally you should X, Y, Z. But actually there are plenty of women who do perpetuate the capitalist standards because it’s all that they know right now. Right. And we can’t blame them. And at the same time, if we are in a position where we can make a decision to not subscribe to that and further, like, grow the problem, let’s just say.

You’ve basically taken yourself out of those spaces and created one that you want to see, what you wanted to find in the first place. And I can 100 percent attest to the fact, community building Is a strength of yours.

Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. I have not just one, I think we’re going to focus on one, but I’ve created many spaces and it’s been going on long before even this, I have created peer led masterminds, meaning a group of peers who decide to get together and serve as a brain trust, right.

And brainstorm chat celebrate wins together, work through challenges together, just be in community together. I have been doing that. for a decade. I’ve always had a mastermind and I’ve always been the one to create them. And what that experience taught me was, so many people are looking for community and don’t, either don’t want to, or maybe just don’t even realize they can start their own.

And so when you put out. Hey, I’m looking for people to be in whatever type of community with me. It is amazing how quickly people will say, yes, please. I’ve been looking for something like that.

Mai-kee Tsang: And

Becky Mollenkamp: my mind, because I’m such a community builder is like, well, then why haven’t you created it? But I have come to realize that for many people, it is either just not a strength, It involves way too many fears around putting themselves out there, being visible, fearing rejection, all of the things.

And so they’re waiting for that invitation. But I share that because if you are one of those people who’s been waiting for the invitation and it’s not coming, because I discovered it doesn’t always come and it’s not about you. I used to take that on personally. Like, why is everybody else in pure lead masterminds and no one’s inviting me into one?

Like there’s something wrong with me. It’s just because they didn’t know I needed one. Right? Like they didn’t, how would they know? Oh, so. If you are that person who’s been sitting around waiting for the invitation, it’s not coming. I would offer either. Build it yourself, which we’ll talk about, or if you’re not able to do that, or it’s just too much, then at least put out to the world that you are available for invitation, because people don’t always know that, right?

And they can’t know if you don’t tell them. So I just want to share that before we go into this community to say, like, I have a track record of doing this over many types of communities. Masterminds I’ve built before. I’ve probably done at least a dozen of those over the years that I have created. I’ve also created a networking community.

I have a community just for coaches. Like I find, I have found where do I need a space? It doesn’t exist. Let me make that space. So I’ve done this a lot. The one that we’re going to focus on, I think is for podcasters, because that was another area I couldn’t find community. And in fact, with this, which we’ll talk more about, I didn’t even know Like this idea even really existed.

So this was more than just like a pure mastermind. Those exist. I just needed to make one because I wasn’t getting an invitation for this podcasters collective. It was something very different. It was like, I don’t even think this is a thing, but let’s make it a thing.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yes. Oh, I love that because I’m, I have the exact same train of thought.

And before we get into it, just for those of you who are listening right now, I would love for you to take inspiration from what Becky just said, especially when. It’s like in every relationship, we almost create the problem if we expect other people to read our minds to, to understand our needs before we even can put a voice to it to put a name to it.

So if you’re wondering why you’re not getting invited. let people know you would love invitations for it. And I’m also the same in the sense that I’m the one who often creates accountability groups, peer masterminds. I’ve been in a couple of peer masterminds and most of the time that I am the one who creates them.

I set the tone and also I’m not the one leading it. I’m typically the one who just like organizes all the logistics and I’m just very mindful of making sure that everyone is getting Out of it, what they’re also putting into it as well. And if there’s one thing that I can say, an example of my own, when it comes to creating the change that you want to see, right?

So I look at my Kajabi insights, my assessments, right? Any reports that I’m getting about how people are joining my email list. And I am shocked that three years ago, I created a resource, it’s called the Asian Online Business Directory. And the reason why I created it, It’s because this was in 2021 when there was a true rise in Asian hate crimes.

It was tail end of COVID. And then there were various incidents around the world that affected, especially the Asian and Pacific Islander communities. And then I was definitely very emotionally charged at the time that I created this. But then I had a lot of conversations with people who were the host of summits or they were podcasters, someone who had a platform to share.

And oftentimes when I’d ask them about their commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, I would often find that there was actually a lack of Asian representation. And I don’t just mean, all types of Asians, because I know for myself, I am East Asian, but I’m not trying to create a segregation with different types of Asians.

That’s why this whole Asian online business directories, anyone who identified as Asian, they were welcome to apply to be a part of it. Anyway. But they often said to me, I don’t know any Asian business owners. And when I actually tried to find other directories,

there was no bar, there was almost no criteria to be on it, except Whether it’s a part of your heritage and that is all and I was like, okay, that’s a start, but I don’t just want anyone just to be on there. I still want us to be like really brilliant at what we do. I don’t want us to be chosen simply because we’re Asian.

It’s a part of our identity, but we still have so much to bring to the table because of our level of expertise and the lived experiences that we can provide to enhance the conversations that we can be a part of. So I created that directory and it was application only. I hired a team as well to actually help me remove personal bias so that I wasn’t the one choosing every single person, but they would be answering the questions in such a way where they would meet the criteria of what.

We see as someone who is of integrity and that they do have experience, doesn’t, they don’t have to have a million followers or anything like that. It’s very much like, okay, is there evidence of your expertise somewhere? Can we see it? And how do you want to answer these questions? And that directory. I have not updated it since 2021.

And I make that very clear to those who actually find this on my website and then go to download it. I like have it everywhere. I’m like, I haven’t updated this in 2021. So please note some info actually might be. Might have shifted since then, because some people may have pivoted or they may have shifted in a completely different direction and not an online business owner anymore.

But my point being there are over a hundred people on that list and this resource still gets downloaded. And that to me is just a sign that people are, they do care about this. They don’t know where to go. And so that’s, again, if I saw directories for other groups, I’m going to make one that I haven’t seen yet.

So all that to say. If you don’t see what you want, create it.

Ah, but anyway, thank you for letting me go on that little spiel, Becky. Any notes on that?

Becky Mollenkamp: love that you shared it. That was great. That’s great.

Mai-kee Tsang: Thank you. All right. So now, of course, back to you, you mentioned it already about a podcasting collective, but one that is a little bit different. So could you tell us just a bit more about that? And I know you already alluded to why you wanted to do it, but just take us deeper into the journey, because you could have been doing anything else with the resources that you have.

But you chose to create the Feminist Podcast Collective, so do tell.

Becky Mollenkamp: am happy to because this is one of the things I’m probably most excited about and it’s not a business venture. It’s not making money for me. That was never the intention and yet I am so excited and passionate about it and just like when I think about what it could become, I get really giddy.

It was born out of the idea of listening to podcasts and hearing over and over again. This is a Wondery podcast. If you like this show, check out our new Wondery podcast, or this show’s brought to you by Lemonada. Here’s another amazing podcast in the Lemonada family. How many of us listen to podcasts and hear those ads from, when we’re listening to some of the major podcasts that are out there, they’re inside of these networks and they do all of this cross promotion.

And as we, as anyone who podcasts or listens to podcasts may know, it is really challenging to find. independent podcasts. Most of what’s out there is something that’s brought to you by Wondery, Lemonada, Spotify, NPR, right? Yeah. It’s from all of these bigger organizations now because podcasting has become a big industry.

It’s a big business. It’s not like it used to be way back in the day. It’s hard to get found. It’s very hard. And if you don’t have a big, podcast broad production company behind you, far more challenging. And I was like, well, how am I supposed to stand out? How am I supposed to compete? And I had launched my podcast a few months before, I’m listening to all these podcasts and thinking like, well, I, Wondery is never going to ask me to be in their network.

And of course, as a community builder, my thought is, well, like, could I create a Wondery of sorts? Like, is that a wild idea? And so it, Became like, what would that look like to have a similar kind of model for independent podcasters, especially those who share my values, right? So to narrow it even more down, because again, going back to, I don’t want to be in spaces anymore with people who don’t share my values.

Life’s too short for me. That’s just not how I want to spend my time. So if I’m going to build something, it’s always going to be through the lens of the value system that I hold. And what would it look like to create? A model like that where we support each other that rising tide lift all lifts all boats idea of all of us inside of this community inside of this collective function as one unit saying we are here to uplift each other to see can we get more ears on each other’s podcasts if I support Quiet Rebels and Quiet Rebels supports feminist founders that helps to amplify both messages and knowing that we both share the same values and that we’re out trying to create the same world, then how is that a, that’s a win, right?

The more people who hear what you’re doing, Maykay, the better for me because it means that you’re helping create more of this, these quiet rebels who are trying to change the world and make it the space that I also want to see it create, become through the model that I’m doing, which is, talking specifically to business owners.

So I’m like, what would that look like? And I’m like, who do I know? And how can we build this thing? Right. And so it started by like me just thinking about who do I know who has a podcast who shares my values. I’ve been working very hard over the last two years to really build a community to network to meet more people who are like minded.

So I immediately had a list of about people. 12 people or something like 15 people. Maybe even, I guess maybe it was about 7, 20 because of the like 20 people I reached out to almost all of them said yes. In fact, I think everyone said yes. Most said yes right now. A few said I don’t have capacity at the moment, but please tell me later if I can be a part of this.

So I got together the initial group of people. 17 of us or 16 of us and said, Let’s test it out. Let’s build it together. Let’s co create, which is a really wonderful way to build community. If you don’t like, don’t let perfection be the enemy of progress, right? Start, just start and you can figure it out as you go.

So we were going to co create this space, which is what we’ve been doing. Since the beginning of the year is let’s see what it looks like in action. We can fix things as we go and then we’ll make it better as it goes along. But let’s just start and see if this idea is even viable. And so it looks like us getting together.

I hold space twice a month. There’s a set of commitments that people agree to, which includes attending at least one meeting a month or three meetings a quarter and being an active participant in sharing other people’s podcasts. Whether you are liking it, reviewing it, leaving comments, sharing it on social media, being a guest on another person’s podcast.

Here I am guesting on May case, so this is like one of my gives, right? But also I just would be happy to do it. . I’m gonna run this podcast simulcast on my own podcast as another way of amplifying both of our messages. So it’s just thinking and getting creative. How can we work together to uplift all of our shows?

And so that was, I mean, that’s like. Where it came from and the beginnings of it. And it was born out of a passion for saying, I want. I don’t like doing anything alone anymore. I’m at that place of like, I’d really just don’t like doing anything in my business alone. And podcasting can be really lonely when you feel like you’re yelling into a void.

Is anyone even listening to this? Does this matter? Is this making a difference? Having community you can get together with once or twice a month and just like talk about those things. Because in addition to all of the Stuff that we’re doing to promote each other and help each other. We’re also being in community together.

We’re getting together to brainstorm, to share resources, to talk about the hard stuff and the fun stuff, to celebrate each other. And so having that community really helps also in just like surviving something that can feel really lonely.

Oh, I love this so much. And I don’t know how other networks actually work in terms of how people join, if they’re a membership fee or something like that, to be a part of the network, to be cost promoted and things.

But I love that in the case of feminist podcast collective, which, and we also like voted on the name, which I think was pretty cool. And like, it’s truly a co creation. You definitely lead it 100%, but. That doesn’t mean that you take charge of everything, is that you definitely are the core space holder.

And I love that you contribute and you get to be a part of it as well, because I think it could be very easy for those in the leadership position to be apart from the community they actually create. But I love that because you have such a co creative way of thinking and how you love building your communities is very much a, it’s very, Reciprocity led.

Yes. Okay. So for those who are listening right now who actually might want to create their own collective, whether it’s for podcasting or not, I would love to just rewind back a little bit. So you mentioned that you had a couple of people in mind. How did you even start communicating with them that this is what you wanted to create?

And how did you get them on board despite it not actually being concrete yet?

Yeah, the initial part was reaching out and saying this is like to just a few of the people and having just a few initial conversations. Does something like this even make sense? Like, do you think there’s something here?

Is this an actual idea? And after hearing yeah, that sounds amazing. Then it was like, okay, how about I just hold a like informational Kind of call. Let’s just get together in a room and talk about the potential of this. What could it look like? How would we want it to function? What makes sense?

What doesn’t? So I held an initial call. I said time and date, had a zoom link, emailed people and said, here’s what I’m thinking. Let’s get together and discuss this. Come be a part of the building of this, of the creating of it and what this could be. So we got together on zoom and it was really just a brainstorming, like, does this idea have legs?

That was a very quick yes. So that’s helpful. Cause I knew right away, like, yeah, I think this is a thing. So then it really shifted into more from a, like, can we do this to how do we want to do this? Right. What is it going to look like? And everyone was invited to share their ideas to brainstorm potential.

How would we. Like how would the meetings work? What kind of commitments do we want from people? Because in this particular case, at least for now, it is free. So when you’re doing something for free, it’s helpful to have, I find some commitments behind it that people have to agree to because otherwise people will often abuse free spaces, not even intentionally, but because they, when we don’t have some skin in the game, as it were, we’re less likely to actually really show up and do things.

So we created some. Like we all work together to think through like, what are our value system? What’s the mission here? What kind of commitments are we asking from people? I made a really simple Google form all along this process. It’s been like, what is the minimum viable product to get to the next step, right?

What’s the easiest way for me to do this? Again, because it’s free, I’m not going to like, I can’t sit there and justify spending hundreds of hours on things. So it’s like, how do I just do this in a way that causes the least friction, just the simplest thing to keep the ball moving forward. Because I’ve also been involved in community building where that hasn’t happened and has stalled so long.

And I’m an action taker. So I want to see things happen more quickly. So it’s like remove all the barriers. So we made a quick, easy Google form, people that outlined all of the commitments. People were able to sign on, say, yep, I agree. I agree. I agree. Vote on the name because again, this is a collective to me.

Collective means equality that we all have an equal seat at the table. Yes. I’m holding the space, but I’m not in charge. It’s not mine. I’m not the boss. I’m just the organizer and holding the space, but we are all equal members here. We vote on whether we’re going to have new members in or not.

Like it’s really about how can we all have an equal seat at the table? So it started with just a few emails. Would you be interested? Does it sound like something then getting together with an initial group of people, what could it look like? What do you want this to be? What are the things that are important to you or not?

When can we get started? How often are we meeting? And then just making some really simple documents that allowed us to get going. And as make a nose like just recently, There’s a little upgrade to our systems to make it a little bit better. Right. And my guess is over time, it will get even more improvements and get easier to use and become better, but like we’re slowly starting to put it into practice and see, where do we need to make some tweaks?

What kind of changes do we want to make? How can we make this work better for everyone? But the initial part was just like, how can we get it going so that we can see if this feels good.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yes, and I have to say, as a member, I loved that the commitment to stay means helping another human. And I just love it!

I don’t know, I don’t know, it just has such a feel good energy in any and every direction. And I can feel that, at least for myself anyway, there is no pressure to perform and show up as your best polished self, we could show up at the hot mess and still be welcomed. And even yesterday on yesterday’s call, like I won’t name anyone, I will name myself.

But I remember almost wanting to apologize because even though I knew that my commitment in terms of calls that was meeting the requirements, I still felt a sense of guilt for not being able to attend as many calls as high. I had planned or wanted that didn’t matter. And I said, I’m resisting the urge to apologize.

And instead I want to say thank you for everyone’s grace and understanding that we each have our own lives and businesses outside of this collective, but that doesn’t mean that my excitement and appreciation to be here is any less than what it was when I first joined. And I can, like, there are other folks in that call that day who also like.

Demi apologized for being, showing up in a certain way, but then Arthur’s like, no. Like, you’re welcome, as is. And I love that. So, you’ve really set the culture in this collective and I’m just curious, like, for those who are listening right now, Becky, who may not have the same kind of track record as you have for creating their own thing, but if someone else was thinking of creating their own collective, do you have any tips or advice when it comes to setting that culture?

Like, how do you personally communicate it? How do you do it? Keep it going as well, because one thing to set the tone is another to keep the tone. So I’m just curious, any thoughts around that?

Becky Mollenkamp: I will say the same thing I say with business owners around business and how you want to grow your business, how you want to show up is start with values.

I mean, this is true for all things, everywhere, always. I really believe is start with values. What are the values of the community? And I didn’t just impose my values onto the community because I was purposeful in who I was bringing. So I knew we had at least a shared set of values around what’s most important to me around humanity.

But I worked with the community to say, what do we want the values of this space to be? And we outlined what those values would be. And what you just said really hit me, Maykay, of remembering that another thing that I want to do, and because you said that I’m going to start doing it, is Regularly than showing the values coming back to it again.

We haven’t been doing that and I should be on every call. It’s nothing to have a slide up as people come into the room that has the community values there as that reminder so that it helps to ease some of those feelings of people who may be in our case. We have a very human first set of values that talk about holding the door open for those who are behind us.

about, not needing to be perfect. Messy is great. Like those kinds of things. So having them on display for people as constant reminders helps to ease that burden of like, Oh no, I’m not performing well. I’m not doing everything. If you see the values in your face, saying like, Oh, messy, like we’re all humans and messy is fine.

If that’s what your values are, that’s going to give people that reminder. Like there’s no need to apologize. This is the space I’m welcome in. These are the values we all agreed to. So I’m going to, Make a slide after this that does that so that at the beginning of each call, it’ll be displayed because that’s something in another community.

I’ve been helping to co create that we do now because of some feedback we received from the community of those like we I’m forgetting what the values are. It takes nothing to just every call and think about this for your business. Think about this for everywhere. What are the things you value and don’t just pick some words.

We have words, but each word has an understanding of what that means. So if you say that we value compassion, what does that look like in practice? What does that mean? And give a little more so people actually know what this looks like and then display those values. Again and again, to the point where people start to memorize them, because it’s one thing to say we have the set of values, or that you agreed to them when you assigned the community commitments at the beginning, but to see them again and again helps people actually act and live into them without guilt, without feeling strange about it, to say, no, this is how we show up.

The other piece of it is live into it yourself, right? As even though I am not The owner of this commit this community. It’s not my community. We are collective. I do know that I am the person holding the space primarily, at least for now that may change over time. But for now, I’m the primary space holder.

I am the person people are more looking to because I’m the organizer as of now. And so it’s really imperative that I show up. And live into those values so that I say, we don’t need to be perfect. We’re just glad you’re here. It’s great that you’re doing this at any time you can recommit. I also send emails, at a halfway point to everyone just to say like, Hey, as a reminder, this is the commitment you’ve made, make sure that you’re aware of what those commitments are.

We want to make sure that you meet your commitments or whatever, in a way that isn’t hopefully judgmental, but it’s more loving. So I think it’s important to, as the. the space holder to think about how am I living into these values? How am I showing up and displaying them so people see that in action?

And then how am I reminding people of the values? And everything should start with those values.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yes, I couldn’t agree more. And I have to say, one of the, one of the things that I remember, I actually did apologize to you for, even though it actually didn’t require an apology at all. It’s like, Oh, I said, Oh, I’m sorry.

I’m actually eating a bun right now. And with a cup of tea. And you’re like, what? Like, why are you apologizing? That’s fine. And I think, again, I think so many of us carry This may be for those of you who actually have a corporate background or just any sort of professional background at all that you can’t eat on calls because it looks unprofessional.

But actually, how has that got anything to do with your professionalism? Seriously. It’s just like, we’re rolling our eyes here and like, but for those of you who aren’t seeing a clip right now, you’re just hearing our voices, but we’re just rolling our eyes like, yeah, what has that got to do with anything with like how well we can do?

With the work that we’re doing. Right. But yeah, professionalism

Becky Mollenkamp: is actually a very racist and sexist con concept to begin with. And I don’t adhere to any ideas around professionalism, because so much of what we actually have been conditioned to believe is professional really means how closely can I approximate me.

Being a white male wealthy, like, what does that look like? How much can I replicate what I have seen from white men? That’s what professional looks like, right? That wearing a suit and, being very stoic and all these things we associate with men. Because that’s a way to protect power and privilege.

And so I don’t adhere to professionalism. And also like, if we’re saying we’re running a human first community, humans eat, like you have to eat. So if you need to show up and eat, especially if a call time falls at lunch or dinner, and I can’t tell you, like, I know this is. It seems like this might seem like such a small issue, but the truth is, I see this in so many communities I’m in now that more and more of us are using online spaces for work and other professional activities.

The number of times I have been on networking calls or other like community calls in spaces where people are profusely apologizing for needing to eat, going off camera, refusing to speak any of it, like, cause God forbid, somebody might see them chewing food. And. It’s like in spaces, again, because I’m only in human first spaces at this point, and even inside those spaces, there’s this feeling that I’m not really allowed to show up as a human, right?

I have to show up perfectly. And so I think that’s where the values come into play and being really clear about the kinds of spaces you want to create. And what does it actually mean, then? What does it really mean to say I’m running a human first community? We have commitments. You’re supposed to attend three calls over a quarter.

That’s three calls a month. That’s not a lot. And I can still tell you, if someone came to me and said, I’ve made it to two calls, but this last month, my mom’s in the hospital. I have to care for her. I also have kids at home. I just, I’m not going to be able to make the other call. Do I need to leave the community?

I would say, of course not. Of course not. It is clear that you have been you. Being a participating member, you’re doing the things that we’ve asked you to do as the capacity that you have allows, and you’re a human, and life’s, and that’s okay. We don’t want to lose people who really care. The commitments are there to show that you’re committed, and that you’re living out our values, but sometimes living out our values may mean falling short because you’re still allowing yourself to be a human first, and that’s okay.

So when you think about values, it means that. thinking not just like what does it mean to be perfect at executing on a community commitment, but what does it look like for us, whatever our value set is, what does it look like in action? And I don’t think we often think about that.

Mai-kee Tsang: Okay, first of all, so much that just came there. And one thing that just popped to mind, the words, I literally see the words in motion as you were speaking, that the currency that we have is caring and I think that is so beautiful because like you said like right now it’s not a it’s not a paid collective it may or may not be depending on how things go in the future but I love that because there’s an absence of The like monetary exchange for a space like this, you’ve created a brand new currency for all of us, and that it’s very much about really relying on that human first way of operating our businesses and just running our lives in general, that there is compassion and care for not just everyone else, but also ourselves that we’re not exempt from that care and compassion, that we also get to bask in it as well.

And so I just think that’s a really wonderful thing that you’ve done. And I love that you and I both use the term human first, because that’s like, Oh yeah, that’s just like, that is the whole picture of it’s including like, yes, of course, there’s room for having a polished product. Sure.

There’s also room for that mess, that chaos that still makes us who we are, but that doesn’t make us anything less. than what we can provide and what kind of value that we can give to others too. And so I just think that’s a beautiful currency that we have for the collective. It’s like care and compassion for others and oneself.

Becky Mollenkamp: I love the idea of caring as currency. I also just love that you mentioned the asking and receiving because I think, I don’t know, this may be a little outside of the conversation, but I still think it’s really interesting to highlight because part of this podcast collective is it’s not just about how much can I give, but can I allow myself to receive.

And for many people, especially women and folks who have any marginalized identity, we are often conditioned to be marginalized. Caretakers to be givers and conditioned to believe that we aren’t worthy or allowed to receive that receiving is bad. And it’s really important that in this community, we share, we go around at the start of every call is what have you done?

So where have you given? And that’s a space where many people will feel the most comfort. I feel lots of comfort talking about all the things I’ve done, but you’re also asked, I won’t say required, but expected to then also give an ask. What do you need? Because you’re here to also receive, right? And so that’s a really fun challenge for some people to get comfortable with not only just showing up and saying, here’s the ways that I’m giving, but here’s how I want help.

This is the help I need. It forces you to start thinking in that way, to think about what kind of help do I need and who can I ask for that? And how can they give that to me? And how can I allow myself to receive it? So I know it’s a bit outside this discussion, but I just think it’s such a beautiful thing that we’re doing inside of that community as well.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yeah. And I’m actually going to ask you about that anyway, that the kind of give and ask system that we have, because I also really struggle. I always feel that the give needs to be like 70, 80 percent and the ask needs to be like, Oh, like 20%, maybe 30. But I love that. That is not the case. It’s like, look.

We are here as a collective, we are here to support each other, and we ask for one thing, that, you let us know how you’ve helped someone. It’s okay if you ask some more, right, but it does feel wildly uncomfortable to do the ask I’m recovering from that, I’m trying to learn to be okay with receiving, without always having to give an equal amount of support.

give, I think I love that you emphasized to me the other day, reciprocity, because I didn’t think it counted. If I was a guest on another member’s podcast, I always thought that was a take because like, Oh, I, that was the opportunity. And then you were like, no, You also gave value, did you not?

Right,

Becky Mollenkamp: and you’re giving of your time. And yes, yeah, I just think that’s so important. And so, I mean, I don’t know how much you want to get into the nuts and bolts of what we do. But I mean that, this is, it’s interesting. Because I’m also, like I said, I’ve helped to create another community that’s a networking community.

But it’s really a, it goes well beyond networking and it’s a community. And part of what we’re building inside of that is a energetic exchange. basically a bartering system, but it’s a little different because it’s not bartering indicates one for one, right? Which is still really caught up in capitalist ideas about exchange and about value and about worth.

And right about like, what does it actually mean to give and to take? And so it’s an energetic exchange, meaning that people can offer up Anything I could say, like, I have a book I have to mail off because I was like, I’m never gonna read this book. I offer that to the community. I can also offer my services.

I can offer anything. Anyone who might need that thing can take that thing or no one might take that thing. I offer it freely. Right? This is a challenge to learn how to offer freely without expectation of things in return. And then inside the community, we also then say what we need. Someone in the community may be able to give it to me.

Maybe they won’t, but I have to learn how to ask freely without expectation of it being met, but learning how to ask. And what we have found is that sometimes someone can help with a part of that. Maybe they help with all that. Maybe they know someone who can help. But the most interesting thing has been watching people struggle with learning how to ask.

They can learn how to give, but learning how to ask. But I have a feeling if we had more men in the group, it would probably be the other way around, where the men would more than likely struggle with, what do I give without expectation of anything in return? How do I learn to just give freely? And so I love that.

That’s what we’re doing in this other space. And there’s a lot, what we’re bringing into this podcast collective too, is just like freely giving. Yes, we keep some amount of track, we talk about it, but it’s not like a, There’s no one for one tit for tat. You did this. I did that. There’s no like tallies of who’s doing more, who’s doing less.

There’s no like, Oh, you’ve only done three things. You can only ask for three things. It is just an expectation of giving freely without expectation because that is the commitment you made because you care about the community because you want to help other people succeed. And then learning to also ask and to receive and to know that sometimes You have more capacity to give, and maybe that month, you gave way more than you normally do, or than anyone else did, or whatever, and you just gave because you could, and maybe you didn’t even ask for anything that month, you just didn’t, you just needed to, you just had time to give, and then maybe the next month, you’re like I don’t have time to give anything, so I’m going to rely on the fact that you all have seen that I’m showing up and that I care, and instead, I really have a lot of things I need right now.

Because my capacity stretched so thin, I need help. And to learn how to do that is just so important. So that’s what it looks like. There’s no, like, I mean, yes, we have a tracking system in that we put things out so that people can report back. They can see what’s been happening. I mean, obviously we also want to know if there are people who just are not living up to the commitments at all, right.

They’re not showing up. They’re not doing much in the way of giving, they’re only asking, but over time, because it’s a quarter commitment. Every quarter, and I think this is an important thing too. Sorry, I’m going off track, but for people who are thinking about creating communities, one thing I have definitely learned is to create.

stop dates, create or recommitment date. Because when I have had peer masterminds that have had no end date, they naturally start to fizzle out. And then everyone feels guilty because there’s no exit point. And they’re I want to, I feel bad saying I need to go because no one else is, but I really don’t have time.

And like, how do I manage this? And it leaves people feeling awful. So with this community, it’s a, it’s one quarter at a time, you commit to a quarter. Right. You follow up on the commitments. You’re there for quarter. And then at the end of the quarter, I check in, are you recommitting for the next quarter?

You can leave gracefully. No one will be angry. Everyone can go when they need to, if it no longer serves you, you have an exit, you have an easy way out that you don’t have to feel bad about, and then you can recommit or not. And we have new people come in. So some will leave, some will come in. But that having that.

End date is important, plus we have a full quarter where people can show their activity. Maybe you have a month where you can’t, but another month you give more, another month you take more, but we have some time where it’s like, I can see, that’s the only reason we track, so that we can see over time, are you living up to and honoring the commitments that you made to the community?

Mai-kee Tsang: That’s such a good point about the start and stops. Like, hey, the milestone point, are you gonna veer off into like a different direction? If so, that’s like, no problem. There’s no guilt or anything. or anger about the decisions you make. It’s just like, look, it’s what serves you in this season and that’s what really matters, right?

Yeah, that was a hard learned lesson

Becky Mollenkamp: for me because I have had many where I didn’t and I have seen the guilt or just the general bad feelings it can create. So it’s really nice. So even if it’s not like we’re definitely ending it at one month or six months, we’re gonna have a check in, right? And then follow through on that check in and give people that graceful exit if they need it.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yes, oh that’s so important. So Becky, before we actually start circling back and like rounding up all the almost like steps for those who are interested in creating these kinds of collectives, I would love to hear from you because like you said you’re doing this for free and it you know may or may not include a monetary factor later on down the line, but I’m curious like what do you personally get out of it for doing it for free?

I’m sure you feel good by doing it, but what kind of keeps you going with this?

Becky Mollenkamp: Oh, feeling good wasn’t enough. I mean, that’s a lot of it, right? Like again, one, I get to be a part of the community. The community might not exist without me. I mean, this particular community probably wouldn’t have existed without me.

I might not have ever found what I was looking for. If I hadn’t created it, I may never have been invited into something similar. I don’t even know of something similar out there. So like, I, Number one is I just get to be in it. I get to have this space for myself and for my podcast, and I desperately wanted it.

And so that right there is worth the price of admission, the price of the effort that I have to do. Two, I get to For me, the thing that actually lights me up even more than me being able to benefit from the community is I get to see other people benefit from the community. And I get really lit up this, but this is how I’m hardwired.

Not everyone’s hardwired to be a community creator and a connector and that kind of person. But if you are, then you know what I’m saying. When I get like a real jolt, when I see other people connecting, hitting it off, when Collaborating, making magic because of a space that I created for that to happen.

Like, truly that, like, really lights me up. So, like, when I start to see people inside of this collective becoming friends, or working on a project together, or, introducing each other to different people, or co working, or whatever, I’m like, oh my god, I’m going to I made that happen. Like, how cool is it?

Like, that’s, that, that happened because of me and I love making connections and things and seeing how those things play out. And I also just really enjoy, like, being in community with people. So just the, like, having a space where I get to create more relationships. Deepen relationships, like, I love you make a, I loved having you on my podcast.

I’ve loved every time I get to be in a space with you. But the truth is like, if we don’t have a space to do that, we don’t, we’re not gonna, we live in different countries. Like we live hours away, like our chances of hopping on a call and just having a call together are not very high. But when we have a community where I can invite you in, And then say like, let’s be in community together.

I get to continue to have a relationship with you. Right. And that matters a lot to me. Most of these people are people like, they’re all people that I would want to continue to have a relationship with. I wouldn’t have invited them in. And so it’s a way for me to continue to have relationships with people too and deepen those relationships.

And that’s important to me. So there’s a lot of like, I feel like there’s a lot of benefit. in it, even if I don’t get paid. But that’s also that human first approach to life and business that I operate from. There are so many rewards that are not about how much money I’m making.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yeah. And that is very fair.

I love that point that you just made that it’s right. It’s true that even though that you and I are friends and we have been ever since we first met last year, like shout out to Daniel Tucker, the, the reason why we connected in the first place. And Finding time on each other’s calendars, like, oh, I can’t do this day, I can’t do that day, it probably would have actually been a longer stretch of time until we actually connected again.

So I love that. This collective has also been a way, like, of course, there are many other benefits I support in our podcast and we’re able to support others, but actually another benefit that comes with it is this continuation of conversation. And we are more up to date with what’s going on in each other’s lives and businesses as well.

So it’s just a wonderful way to stay in touch is basically what I’m trying to say.

Becky Mollenkamp: Well, yeah, and I really think, social media and always the ways that we operate business. Now, not all of it feels like it’s serving me. And honestly, I am more and more leaning into, and I see other people feeling the same.

I don’t know if it was the COVID pandemic stuff, or just the natural evolution of what happens when we lean so heavily to this social media existence, but I just want. Like real connection with people. And this offers a way for me to market and do business in a way that feels so much more aligned with how I want to do business and how I want to show up.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yep. Yes. Yes. Oh, I love that. You are a wonderful embodiment of creating what you want to see and just really being not only a part of it, but also that you get to just witness it. what’s happening as a result of it. And I’m sure that those who are listening right now, who have made it all the way to this point, are curious like, okay, I’ve heard a lot, Got some good gems, but how do I get started?

So just to as we start to wrap up here, Becky, if you can give people three action steps that they can take, if they are interested in creating their own collective that meets a need that they don’t see out there, what would you share with them?

Becky Mollenkamp: Well, the first piece then won’t count as one because I think it’s identify a need that you haven’t found a solution to, right?

But we’re not going to count that because three doesn’t feel like enough tips anyway. So this will be good. I want to count that. Okay. Feel free to go beyond three. That’s the first piece. It’s like, what is the thing that you want that you haven’t been able to find? And can you challenge yourself to step outside your comfort zone, to take that risk and try to.

Make it for yourself. So what is the thing? And then I think identifying before you start to bring other people in, identifying what do I want it to look like? Because if you’re going to create it, it should at minimum serve your needs. Hopefully you find other people you start to help them, let them co create and bring in their needs as well.

But it needs to serve your needs because if you’re the one who’s doing the work to start it, it should. So what are the needs? What do you want to get out of this experience? Really get clear on like the why of the space for yourself. Because you also will need that then for the next step, which is communicating to others what it is you’re trying to do.

So think about, like, once you know what you’re trying to do, what the why of this thing is, who are the other people you already know in your world who might need that same thing? And by the way, don’t just think of the people who’ve already told you they need that thing, because like we said at the beginning of this, They may need it and they haven’t expressed it to you, because so many of us don’t think to tell people what we need.

So who are the people you think might need it, even if you’re not sure, okay? Include them. And then, so once you’ve identified what it is and why it is, and who might need it, reach out to those people and ask them what they think. Give them just that, like, here’s the what and why. Would this be helpful to you?

Does that sound like something? Is this a thing? And you’ll get that feedback from people. And if you have enough that it feels like this is a thing, this could be a thing. Let’s make this thing, get them on a call, allow them in. Like that invitation to co creation makes a big difference is when people feel like they’re co creating something versus being told this is the way it is my way or the highway.

They are way more engaged and you will get more. Help not just more buy in, but like actual help in creating it. So then get some of those people on a call, ask them what they want to see from the community, from this space, how do they want it to operate and co create the value system again? Cause that’s where I would start.

What are our values? How do we want to show up and then think about what does this look like in practice? How do we do it? What are the mechanics of it? And ask for help in execution too. I feel like that’s a good start.

Mai-kee Tsang: Definitely. Like. Okay, if I were to make a collective, what would it be about? And why?

And

Becky Mollenkamp: yes.

Mai-kee Tsang: And it does not

Becky Mollenkamp: have to be for free, just because what I have done is for free. I also want to point that out. Free is great. You’ll get more people. But also know that free also has its own problems. Because as I said, sometimes when something’s free, people don’t value it. And you may not have people that are really wanting to participate.

If you’re trying to do something that’s a true collective, where everyone is equal. Equal. Think about what that means for pay. Will you be paying into the pot as well? Are people paying you just to operate it? Are they paying you for the expenses that inevitably come up in Zoom or Slack or whatever you’re using to host it?

But it’s totally fine to also, to charge. I want to make that clear. Like a collective doesn’t have to be free just because that’s the model I’m using. But if you are going to charge money, think about what that looks like so that you can communicate it with people so they understand what they’re paying for, why they’re paying.

Mai-kee Tsang: That’s a really good point because for, not everyone is in a position to be able to have the resources to offer this for free. And so thank you so much for just adding that detail. If for those of you who are listening who are like I do want to do this, but I still need to consider what this might take away from in terms of like money.

Generating activities in my business. So thank you so much for that. Oh, thank you. I feel like I can talk to you all day long because whenever we do have a conversation, it just keeps going. And I’m just like, Oh, I’m so, I’m just so happy that we have connected and I’m continuing to both witness what you’re creating and also be a part of it.

And I just want to thank you for generously sharing what it has been like to create these collectives from scratch and your passion for it. track record with them. So thank you for basically laying out the pathway for us. For those of us who actually want to create our own. So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And thanks for

Becky Mollenkamp: being part of the collective because it is wonderful having you and your amazing podcast inside of it. And thank you for telling people about this. I think again, if you can’t find what you want in the world, don’t let that stop you. Like, even if you are that quiet type, just know that there are so many people like you who also really want a space and they’re waiting for you to invite them.

Mai-kee Tsang: Oh, yes, and I will say that I am a quiet type and we had a conversation about panels in one of our recent collective calls, and I’m not sure if I shared it openly, but something that I did want to share if I didn’t was the fact that I find it really hard. Oh no, I didn’t say it, but I think you actually said it.

put a voice to what I wanted to say, which is the fact that it can be so easy for the quieter ones in on in a panel to lose their voice because there are other more extroverted folks who are a lot more outspoken and they almost talk over the more quieter people and I have been that quiet person my entire life and I find that really hard but I just want to say that The facilitator, the leader, the organizer, I think it’s really important.

So for those of you who are listening, listen up. I think it’s also really important to have that skill of just looking out for the quiet ones, because they actually might have something really insightful to share, but are so used to silencing themselves in order to feel like they’re still accepted and still feel like it’s okay to be a part of the community.

But acquiring that skill of just like, just keeping an eye out, just body language, whether someone actually wants to say something because you would be surprised. And I just want to say that from my experience in the collective, I have never felt like I wasn’t, I never felt silenced. I always felt like there was freedom to speak.

And in a really respectful way, I think everyone in our collective is just so respectful of each other. And if they accidentally overspeak them, Oh, wait no, you carry on. And like, there’s just, there’s such mindfulness about that. There’s no bulldozing of. Any thought I find. That makes me happy to hear.

All right, Becky. So for those who have only just discovered you today and would love to stay connected, be in your universe, maybe learn about this collective a bit more. Where can we find you on the interwebs?

Becky Mollenkamp: Well, you can go to feministfounders. co, C O, not com, because that one they wanted way too many thousands of dollars for, but if you go to feministfounders.

co, you can learn about my podcast and also the newsletter by the same name. And that’s, you can sign up for free or you can do a paid membership, but sign up for free and learn more about the work I do and how I show up in the world. And if you want to talk to us It’s either May Kay or I about the podcast collective.

We only once a quarter let new people in, has to be values aligned. The community has to vote to say yes. So there are a lot of like hoops just so you know, it’s not like we’re going to have thousands of people inside of this collective, but you can always reach out to either of us by DM on social media.

I’m on Instagram under my name.

Mai-kee Tsang: Yes. All right. So I’ll be sure to put all the links to connect with you there. And before I do let you go, there is one question I love asking all of my guests. And to me, the reason why I even asked this question in the first place is because that yes, we can talk about really insightful, even somewhat serious things, but I love to also create a thread of connection between those who are listening and to the guests here.

So Becky, I have to ask you, what fun fact or fun story about you? Would you like to share today that no one else knows on the internet? And I find that this question is really hard for those who are open books. But yes, what is one fun fact or fun story that no one else knows on the internet that you’re open to sharing with us today?

Well, I am

Becky Mollenkamp: an open book. I may have at one point shared this on like Twitter years ago, when it was still called Twitter. Okay. So I can’t verify that it’s not in the library of Congress somewhere. But it’s not a story I’ve told much because it’s embarrassing. So those are always the best stories to tell, right?

Because I am an open book and I share most things. But when people ask about a celebrity you’ve met, I met Rain Wilson, who played Dwight Schrute on The Office. This was about 20 years ago at the height of office. So, the Huff office is popularity and I was in New York City to see Spring Awakening.

It’s a musical that won the Tony the next day. So the Tonys were the next day. It was the hot ticket in town because it won for the best musical the next day. So that day there were a lot of celebrities there. Including Jimmy Fallon, who is sitting directly in front of me and is gorgeous in real life.

That was a shock to me because I never thought he was that cute. Anne Hays, who showed up late and walked in quite a gown. There were a bunch of celebrities there. But Rainn Wilson was there, sitting not far from me, and I saw him and was like, I love The Office. I love The Office. I can’t believe that’s Rainn Wilson’s there.

So I’m like, I’m gonna go say hi at intermission. And my friend’s like, oh my god, are you really? I’m like, yeah, I’m gonna go say hi. Like, I just love his show so much. I walked up at intermission and I said, oh my god, I can’t believe it’s Dwight Schrute. Ugh. The worst thing to say to a celebrity, especially at the peak of this like show when everyone’s calling him that and he was like, Yeah, hi, like you could tell immediately that he was so annoyed.

And I was like, I love the office. And he said, Thanks. And that was it. And I walked away head bowed in shame. Because I knew I had totally flubbed it. And he did not do anything to relieve me of that notion. He made it very clear that I was very annoying. So that was very embarrassing. I did not ask for a photo or anything because I was just so embarrassed that I had just called him Dwight Schrute.

Oh, dear. Oh, Okay. But I will say he seems like he’s probably a nice enough man. I do not put it on him that he came across rude. I get it. Like, how annoying would that be to be called not your name all the time? Yes. Yep. Okay. Well, thank

Mai-kee Tsang: you so much for sharing.

Becky Mollenkamp: You’re welcome. There’s my fun fact.

Mai-kee Tsang: I mean, can I share one?

I mean, the celebrity that I’m about to mention, she didn’t know that I was doing this because I was behind the bar that I was working at. But my first day when I worked in a restaurant in London, it’s High Street Kensington. It was a very popular sushi restaurant, especially for celebrities actually.

And my first day, so I didn’t even know what the heck I was doing. Okay. So yes, I’ve been a waitress before, but I was behind the bar, new cocktails, all of that good stuff. Anyway. So I’m in the downstairs section where it’s a bit more private because it’s a bit darker and it just feels a lot more intimate than upstairs.

So I’m behind the bar polishing the glasses and then Emily Blunt Comes and sits at the table in the corner and I remember my colleague was the one serving her and when he came back to the bar just to like check because you probably need to get a drink for her or something and I was like What are you doing?

So I was proper fangirling behind this counter so I know I didn’t have direct contact with Emily It’s the way that you did but Yeah, I can imagine that sense of embarrassment, a little bit, but hey, he lives through it, at least you saw him in person. And I have a story. Yes you have a story indeed, but anyway, Becky, thank you so, so much for not just sharing the story, but just for showing up for us today.

I really appreciate you. Thank you so much for just really letting us into your thought process of how you created the Feminist Podcast Collective, as well as other projects that you have outside of this collective. And I hope that this serves as inspiration for those listening right now to create their own quiet rebellions in the form of collectives.

Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. Thank you for having me. I love the conversation and I’m so happy to be in community with you. Same.